"Paul is the apostle of the heretics." Tertullian, Adversus Marcion 3:5 (207 A.D.)


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Papaya Planter - Online Discussion August 16 2010

Let's listen in to this blogger's discussion with someone defending Paul. In response to the post below, others started asking Papaya Planter whether he/she were Christian at all, and whether he/she accepted Jesus as Savior to which Papaya replied he/she had. Rather than the pro-Paul participant answer the questions, they accused Papaya of being Paul's "judge and jury." They accused Papaya of implying that God tricked us by showing the apostles approved of Paul at one point (but Revelation which Papaya quoted was subsequent). Then they accused Papaya of claiming God's word is "not inerrant" and that Papaya is trying to throw out things that "don't agree with your doctrine." Papaya supposedly has "manufactured and trumped up charges." In all of this, no response dealt properly with the arguments raised by Papaya Planter.

Papaya's Post of 8-16-2010

YHWH says a thing is established by 2 or 3 witnesses. I did not come to conclusions about Shaul easily.

Like I mentioned earlier, my very first reading of his 13 letters disturbed and confused me. Shaul didn't seem to flow in agreement like the previous books, from Genesis to Acts. I cherish and hold the Scriptures as precious and sacred, my greatest treasure.

But when learning about how the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, I prayed for understanding, and searched deep. I wanted to know HOW the early teachings of Yahushua became so utterly corrupted with pagan celebrations, and arriving in the dark state it lays in presently.

The clearest clues were given by the Messiah!

1.He said a ravenous wolf would enter the sheepfold, disguised as one of the sheep! What was He referring to, ... another way into the sheepfold, that would not be through Himself?

2. This wolf set his sights on Peter. 'Satan wants to sift you, Peter!' Where does the saying, 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul' come from? Paul claims the commission given Peter by Yahushua, was now his.

By who's authority? Because Paul says so? His two friends as witnesses fall flat with their confused story. They saw, but didn't hear. ... then it changed to ...they heard, but didn't see...

3. Yahushua gives clues to such in Rev2:14 , and as we've been through, the three places Shaul teaches, and James' letter in Acts, because Shaul teaches that eating foods sacrificed to idols is not a big deal; just don't let anyone see you do it?

This one I'd like your input on, Emily. Would Yahushua give such a word in Rev 2, without a way to know who He referred to?

4. Yahushua gave a clue that this false apostle would be thrown out of Ephesus! Rev2 Rev 2:2 “I know your works, and your labour, and your endurance, and that you are not able to bear evil ones, and have tried those who say they are emissaries (apostles) and are not, and have found them false;

Shaul was tossed out of Ephesus.  [Acts 19] 1Cor15:32, "I have fought with the beasts at Ephesus"
2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia (Ephesus) be turned away from me;"

5. Yahushua said there would be tares in the wheat, and to let it grow until the end. 2000 years .

6. In the last days, knowledge increases.

7. Three 3 times in Revelation we are given clues that we are to follow the Commandments of YHWH, and love the testimony of Yahushua, not Shaul's.

Gen 49:10 “The sceptre shall not turn aside from Yehu?ah, nor a Lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes, and to Him is the obedience of peoples. ......
The rod of truth that brings the millennial reign is specifically associated with the 'obedient people.'

8. Question: If Shaul (Paul) is the ''''premier''' man of the NT, as you have decided, why did Yahushua entrust John to present His Revelation?

9. The endorsement of Shaul in 2nd Peter, (is even noted in my KJV), to be considered by most authorities to be a pseudograph! I offered the link in an earlier post.http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2peter.html


11. Shaul is the master of Replacement theology when he denigrates the Jews throughout his letters. We can go through each one if you like.

12. Yahushua gave another clue: Mat 23:9 “And do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in the heavens. 
Mat 23:10 “Neither be called leaders, for One is your Leader, the Messiah

But Shaul said, quite shockingly,--->
1Co 4:14 I do not write this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children. 
1Co 4:15 For if you should have ten thousand instructors in Messiah, yet not many fathers, for in Messiah ????? I have brought you forth through the Good News. 
1Co 4:16 Therefore I appeal to you, to become imitators of me.
1Co 4:17 For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and trustworthy son in the Master, who shall remind you of my ways in Messiah, as I teach everywhere in every assembly. 

1Co 9:1 Am I not an emissary? Am I not free? Have I not seen ????? Messiah our Master? Are you not my work in the Master? 

Gal 4:12 Brothers, I beg you to become as I am, because I am as you are. You did not wrong me at all. 
Gal 4:13 But you know that through weakness of the flesh I brought the Good News to you before. 
Gal 4:14 And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as a messenger of Elohim, as Messiah ?????.
Gal 4:15 What then was your blessedness? For I bear you witness, that if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

(as if he is the father birthing?) Gal 4:19 My little children, for whom I am again in birth pains until Messiah is formed in you,

Php 3:17 Become joint imitators of me, (!)