"Rather…we commend ourselves in every way…through glory, bad report and good report, yet regarded as impostors."  (2 Cor. 6:3, 4 and 6.)

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Billions Disagree with Jesus' Words Only, so Why Not Give Up?

Molly, a critic, wrote me on July 3, 2015 two emails, and I replied to each. See what you think:

1. Molly's First Email, July 3d

At what point did you realize that Jesus was calling you to preach the Truth?

Why did it take him 2000 years?

2. Doug's Reply July 3d

Hi Molly

I beg to differ with you that I am preaching / teaching anything new that Jesus did not preach previously. I am simply repeating what Jesus taught 2000 years ago. The correct question is: when did we stop listening to Jesus?

Blessings,

Doug

PS To see what Jesus (not me) taught 2000 years ago on Paul, see Anti-Paul Passages in Matthew - http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/recommendedreading/354-anti-pauline-passages-in-matthew.html

To answer when did we stop listening to Jesus on this topic, see the early orthodox church's view on Paul at http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/recommendedreading/74-early-church-views.html


3. Molly's Reply July 3, 2015

Seriously. 

For you to have these beliefs that 99.999999999 % of The Billions and Billions of Christians who have lived since Pentecost have not believed, you must have had a revelation from God.

Many, many, many men and women over the 2000 years have had revelations based on the same information but they have come to different conclusions that vary greatly from each other and from you.

Do you speak for God and do you think God wants everyone in the world to believe like you.?  Do you have the fullness of the Truth?

Easy questions to answer

Molly. 


4. Doug's Reply, July 3, 2015

Hi Molly

Everyone prior to Luther thought Luther was crazy. His ideas were excoriated as a "private interpretation" of scripture. He was hunted as a heretic for making such a "private" interpretation. However, now everyone in evangelical churches teaches what Luther taught in his early ministry.

Should Luther have kept quiet when millions of Christians before him believed in sacraments of baptizing babies to bring them justification, that you could buy souls out of purgatory, that the church's sacraments saved you, that hierarchy of priest, cardinals and popes over the common folk was ordained by God, etc? No, you would have to agree.

But why was it right for Luther? Because the law says do not be swayed by the number of witnesses for a point of view. You must always tell the truth, and not fear the crowd who disagree. "Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd," Exodus 23:2.

It is not any different in reading Jesus' words. If Jesus warned of something, we obey, no matter how few people agree at this time. Luther said so too. You agree Luther did right even though Luther started completely alone. Now the question is about Paul.

The early church confronted a Paul-only movement - Marcion teaching Paul was the only apostle to listen to. It is known as Marcionism. This was rebuffed in 207 AD by Tertullian, and the Paul-only movement died by 300 AD. See:

http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/topicindex/276-tertullian-scope-of-quote.html

If you lived in 257AD, and followed Paul's teachings you would be a minority. I would be in the majority. Tertullian's lessons persisted until Luther in 1517-1522 AD overzealously added unnecessary proofs based upon Paul to correct Catholicism's many errors, and this spawned inadvertently a revived Paulinism by 1536 AD. Did you know Luther tried to reverse himself in 1537 AD, and tried to kill the Paulinism that his assistant Agricola advanced? http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/topicindex/248-reformation-doubts-about-paul.html

In 1537, in fact, Luther so switched that it is obvious he called Paul a "false prophet" in Luther's work Antinomian Theses. http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/topicindex/399-luther-on-law-and-false-prophet.html

So if you love Christ, I urge you to read Jesus' words afresh...that's all I am advocating. If you don't hear the master calling you to follow Him more closely, and leave off Paul in favor of Christ, then at least you re-read Jesus' words. That can never upset or disburb your faith in Jesus. Please think about it...

I will give you the easiest place to start to test whether Jesus speaks to this issue ... Remember when Jesus says in Matthew 5:17-19 that some teach you not to follow the Law, and those in the kingdom will call this person the LEAST, but the Greatest in the Kingdom of God will teach you to follow the Law? Well, what do you think the name PAUL means? LEAST. See this article for clear proof: http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/topicindex/280-jesus-on-paul-the-least.html

Blessings of Christ,

Doug


5. Molly's Reply 4:10 pm July 3, 2015

I ask you a question and you give me history lesson.  Why did you do that?  

Do you speak for God and do you think God wants everyone in the world to believe like you.?  Do you have the fullness of the Truth?


Easy questions to answer

Peace be with you.


6. Doug's Reply 4:15 pm July 3, 2015

Molly, 

I said already I don’t speak for God. I am simply repeating what Jesus taught. I believe that anything Jesus taught,  God wants everyone in the world to believe even if billions disagree. I believe Jesus has the fullness of truth.  I believe it is in fact wrong to bring any teaching other than what Jesus brought, including Paul’s doctrines. Jesus is the “sole teacher” (Matt 23:8-10) and “sole pastor” (John 10:16.)

So please answer my question: does Jesus teach you and me as good Bereans “examining scripture” not to follow Paul? I have given you links to read, e.g., http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/topicindex/280-jesus-on-paul-the-least.html

If not, why not?

Blessings,

Doug


7. Molly's Reply at 5:00 pm July 3, 2015

The Bereans were more noble than the Thessalonians. 

They believed Paul's preaching that Jesus was the Messiah foretold by the OT. 

They did not believe in SS [? sola scriptura?]. They searched the scriptures and saw that Paul was right in his preaching. 

The Thessalonians had their own interpretation of the OT and they believed Jesus was not the Messiah. 

John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the Truth. 

What did Jesus do to ensure  that future generations would know what was the Truth was and that it would never change?


 8. Doug's Reply at 5:55 p.m. July 3, 2015

Molly

Yes, Paul did preach the gospel of Jesus in the book of Acts from what Luke saw and heard. I would have approved Paul then too, from what Luke records. Paul taught Jesus’ gospel made  “works worthy of repentance” for salvation. Paul taught that gospel in Acts, and did so UNDER OATH, Paul telling a court inActs 26:20 (ASV) that he "declared [his gospel] both to them of Damascus first and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judaea, and also to the Gentiles, thatthey should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance." Paul did the same as to the Law given Moses – UNDER OATH – once more. Paul says the following in Acts24:14in the courtroom with Felix, a Roman ruler:

"14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets...." (Acts24:14NIV.)

So Paul passed the Berean test. I would have passed Paul too. But is Paul’s under oath testimony in Acts 26  what we read in the Epistles of Paul? Absolutely not!

Why? Paul explains:

“But be it so, I did not myself burden you; but, beingcrafty, Icaught you with guile.” (2 Cor.12:16, ASV.)

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?” Romans 3:7

Paul also explains that in evangelism he felt it proper to pretend to believe the Mosaic law applied so as to “win” more to Christ. We read in 1 Cor. 9:20-21:

(20) And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain Jews; to them that are under the law [i.e.,Nomos], as under the law, not being myself under the law [i.e.Nomos], that I might gain them that are under the law; (21) to them that are without law, [I became] as without law [Greekanomos], not being without law to God, but under law to Christ, that I might gain them that are without law. (ASV)

Hence, a Berean test – which compares Paul’s own epistles to Paul’s sworn testimony before Felix, among other examples – is the modern obligation of followers of Jesus.

You finally ask how did Jesus ensure followers would know what was the truth? The answer is clear – by Jesus giving us warnings such as:

  1. 1.Do not believe someone who says “I am Jesus” in the wilderness or private place (such as outside Damascus), for when you see me again coming from heaven, my appearance will be from every point east and west, and not in private. (Matt 24:5-6, 23-29);
  2. 2.The greatest in the KOG will teach the Law given Moses, but the least man – elichisthos – (the meaning in Greek of Paul's name) – will not. (Matt 5:17-19).
  3. 3.The Ephesians properly rejected someone who said he was an apostle of mine, when there are only 12 into eternity, and the Ephesians also rejected properly the one who said it was ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols (which Paul does multiple times). Revelation ch. 2. http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/jesuswordsonly/114-chapter-ten-jwo.html

Blessings,

Doug