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The "Messenger" On the "False Apostle Paul"

To preserve this material from 2003-2006, still available at this link, I post the several Blog posts of Messenger offered in support of Michael Eden.

 


 

Posted By MichaelEden
August 1st, 2003, 11:51 AM

Revelation Chapter 2 starts out:

Posted By Messenger
May 5th, 2006, 05:34 PM

The Way, The Truth, and The Life

A rich man asked the Mashiach (Messiah, Christ) how he could enter the Father’s Kingdom. Yeshua (Jesus) replied,

Keep the commandments if you want to enter life.

What commandments was he talking about? Was it the commandment to ‘just believe in him and be saved’? Or was it the commandment that somehow ‘his blood would wash away all sin’?

Lucky for us, he does list the commandments to which he was referring. Most people would recognize them as the holy and righteous law that his Father YHVH (aka God) has always upheld. The life that Yeshua leads is no different than what his Father has always asked for. Yeshua is the example that each man and woman should strive to emulate. The 14th chapter of the Gospel of John offers several insights into this relationship between Father and Son. Here are a few quotes from Yeshua:

“I am the way, the truth, and the life;” (v.6)

“no one goes to the Father except by me.” (v.6)

“Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.” (v.9)

“The words that I have spoken to you do not come from me. The Father, who remains in me, does His own work.” (v.10)

“I am in the Father and the Father is in me” (v.11)

“I am telling you the truth: whoever believes in me will do what I do” (v.12)

“If you love me, you will obey my commandments.” (v.15)


This is the real gospel. This is it. The REAL DEAL. CASE CLOSED


Hmmm . . . this doesn’t exactly jive with what I’ve been taught . . . I’m pretty sure that the law is there to condemn us and that ‘there is none righteous under the law’ . . . yeah that’s what my pastor was saying last Sunday . . . oh yeah and my flesh will do what my spirit doesn’t want it to do . . . and man is ‘cursed under the law’ . . . yeah the law is a curse.

The Law is a curse? Your body does what your mind doesn’t want? There’s none righteous under the law? Have you gone mad child? Where did you get these teachings from?

Umm actually, it’s from a really smart guy . . . he wrote most of the new testament and he was God’s ‘greatest apostle’. His name was Paul.


Oh really, tell me what this Paul guy says then . . .


He says that nobody is righteous in Romans 3:10-12

10. As the scriptures say: “There is no one who is righteous,
11. No one who is wise or who worships God.
12. All have turned away from God; they have all gone wrong;
No one does what is right, not even one.


My Bible says that he was quoting from Psalm 14:1-3 and Psalm 53:1-3 which are basically identical passages. Let’s see what it says:

Psalm 14:1-3

Fools say to themselves, “There is no God!”
They are all corrupt, and they have done terrible things;
There is no one who does what is right.
The LORD looks down from heaven at mankind to see if there are any
who are wise, any who worship him.
But they have all gone wrong; they are all equally bad.
Not one of them does what is right, not a single one.


Wow. It looks as though Paul has twisted the Psalms to imply that everyone is like that; not just the fools. If I keep reading what does Psalm 14:4 say?

“Don’t they know?” asks the LORD. “Are all these evildoers
ignorant? They live by robbing my people and they never pray to me.”


From this we can deduce that the LORD’s people are not included in the group that Paul describes. Paul twists the meaning of “no one” as written in the Psalms to include more people than just the ‘evildoers’ and ‘fools’. The LORD’s people are righteous because they do keep his Law.


Why don’t we have a look at Paul’s “conversion story”

Acts 9:3-7

3. As Saul was coming near the city of Damascus, suddenly a light from the sky flashed around him.
4. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute me?”
5. “Who are you, Lord?” he asked. “I am Jesus, whom you persecute”, the voice said.
6. “But get up and go into the city, where you will be told what you must do.”
7. The men who were traveling with Saul had stopped, not saying a word; they heard the voice but could not see anyone.


Why don’t you tell it again Paul . . .

Acts 22:6-9

6.“As I was traveling and coming near Damascus, about midday a bright light from the sky flashed suddenly around me.
7. I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute me?’
8. ‘Who are you, Lord?’ I asked. I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you persecute,’ he said to me.
9. The men with me saw the light, but did not hear the voice of the one who was speaking to me.”


Hmmm, I wonder why he can’t tell his story the same way twice in a row? Did the men see the light or did they hear the voice? Which is it Paul? Maybe he just made the whole thing up?


Paul said in 2 Corinthians 11: 16-18

16. I repeat: no one should think that I am a fool. But if you do, at least accept me as a fool, just so I will have a little to boast of.
17. Of course what I am saying now is not what the Lord would have me say; in this matter of boasting I am really talking like a fool.
18. But since there are so many who boast for merely human reasons, I will do the same.

???? What? The more I look at this ‘Paul’ scripture the more it seems like he’s crazy. In Jeremiah 9:24, YHVH says, “If anyone wants to boast, he should boast that he knows and understands me,”

John 7:18

[Yeshua said,] “A person who speaks on his own authority is trying to gain glory for himself.”


Paul says in Romans 3:20 “For no one is put right in God’s sight by doing what the Law requires; what the Law does is to make man know he sinned.”


??????? Does this even require a rebuttal? Can I not just direct you to the teachings of the Messiah outlined in the start of this paper? The way into the Kingdom of heaven is to do what the Law requires . . . this truth coming straight from the mouth of Yeshua. (“Keep the commandments if you want to enter life.”)


The truth of the matter is that basically all of Paul’s writings are twisted and confusing. Why would God have an apostle that was difficult to understand? That just doesn’t make any sense. Keep comparing “Paul’s Gospel” to the true gospel of the real Messiah and the real apostles (Matthew and John), and you’ll see the difference is like night and day . . . spiritual night and day.


I would like to thank the members of www.riversofrevelation.com/forum for their insight and support.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Messenger
May 26th, 2006, 12:32 PM

People have written much to show where Paul and Jesus agree.

Here's my problem with Paul. Please tell me how to reconcile this if you can:

WAS THERE NONE RIGHTEOUS UNDER THE LAW?

In claiming that “there is none righteous, no, not one” under the Law, Saul of Tarsus, also called Paul, contradicted the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul says that none is righteous under the law, that obedience to the law justifies no one before God, and that the law was a curse:

Ro 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Ro 3:19 - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Gal 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

But the Lord Jesus says there were many who were righteous under the law:

Mt 13:17 - For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Mt 23:3 - That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mt 23:29 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

In fact, some of the righteous under the law during the lifetime of both Jesus and Saul were:

Elizabeth and Zechariah, the parents of John the Baptist: Lu 1:6 - And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Simeon, who waited to see the Messiah: Lu 2:25 - And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

Joseph the husband of Mary, and Mary herself who was chosen to be Jesus’ mother: Mt 1:19 - Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example,was minded to put her away privily.

John the Baptist: Mr 6:20 - For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly.

Why did Saul contradict the Lord? The answer is simple: Saul misunderstood the relationship between the Law and Love.

Saul preached that the law cannot justify or make man righteous before God:

Ro 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Ro 4:15 - Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Ga 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ga 3:11 - But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

In contrast, the Lord affirmed the law, came to fulfill his part in it, and exhorted his hearers to obey it. Thus:

Mt 5:17 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mt 7:12 - Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

And the Lord added that, beyond or on top of the life that the law gives, he offers perfection to those who would follow him. Thus:

Mt 19:16 - And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

In summary, Paul’s gospel says: Never mind the law; just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you are saved. Thus many believers disregard the Ten Commandments without feeling guilty, believing that they have been saved by faith in Christ, and that once saved, always saved. But if they cannot enter life, how can they go to perfection?

But the Lord’s gospel says: Obey the law and enter life, then achieve perfection by following him. Faith in him makes easier entry to life and achievement of perfection, because the Holy Spirit puts and writes the law in our minds and hearts. But the Holy Spirit does not dwell in unclean vessels. The correct sequence therefore is: Repent, forgive, believe in Christ, be baptized, and the Holy Spirit will indwell us and lead us to life (by obeying the Law) and perfection (by following Christ in agape love).

Paul quoted from Psalm 14 and used a tiny truncated phrase to make a huge generalization to set aside the Law. Fully read, Psalm 14 clearly states that while none is righteous among the fools and children of iniquity, God always has a righteous generation who keep the Law.

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Posted by Messenger
May 26th, 2006, 03:58 PM

Romans 7:13-22 (King James Version)

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

(I am sold to my second master: SIN)


15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

I do know what is right, I just don't do it. Instead I serve a second master


16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

????? What Paul??? ??????


17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Here's a great excuse everyone: It's not you that does it, it's the sin itself!


18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

I know that I shouldn't sin, but I don't have the self-control to do anything about it


19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

I chose evil over good everytime


20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Like I said, sin has a complete grip on my actions


21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

So then . . . good = evil?

3 John 1:11 (King James Version)

11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.


Malachi 2:17 (KJV)

17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Messenger
May 26th, 2006, 04:18 PM

The section of Romans 7 that I just outlined is complete nonsense. If you want to defend someone who talks like that (seemingly schizophrenic), fine. Just don't expect me to believe that Jesus sent him when he says things like this:

17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

He is completely trying to duck the responsibility for his sins. He's saying that sin is a separate entity that somehow has gained complete control of him. Open your eyes please.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Messenger
May 26th, 2006, 06:22 PM

How about this verse: (This is what he says after the other schizo stuff he wrote earlier)

Romans 7:

25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Translated: "I serve two masters"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Messenger
May 26th, 2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayOfLight


To question Paul is to question the authority of the other apostles since the Peter, James, and John accepted Paul's apostleship (Gal. 2:9). It is also putting the writings of Luke into question since in Acts 13:1-3, Luke wrote that it's the Holy Spirit who set apart Saul and Barnabas for the work they were called to.


It seems to me that Luke was like a journalist, writing down what he saw, and some times what people told him, just taking their word for it. He was a travelling companion of Paul.

I also notice that Luke disagrees with other gospels, for example, saying that disciples tarried in a certain town, when other gospels say that they were told not to and therefore departed. This makes me wonder about Luke.

Quote:


It is also putting into question Peter's endorsement of Paul (2 Peter 3:15)


The book of 2 Peter is considered by most scholars to be pseudoanonymous. . and not written by Peter.

This is a tragic loss for Paul supporters because it is the ONLY time one of the original 12 apostles appears to refer to Paul in any of the books the 12 apostles had actually authored.

IMHO, the only part of 2 Peter that has any validity is the second chapter simply because it was taken from the genuine book of Jude.

And for anyone thinking that Peter wrote 1 Peter think again.

1 Peter 5:12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.

Where else do we read about Silvanus :

2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Silvanus was clearly Paul's partner.

Jesus gave us the prophecy of Peter's hands being tied (equivalent) so he is taken where he would not want to go ... if someone wrote something in my name after my death that I would object to in life, this would see me with my hands tied and taken where I wouldn't want to go.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Messenger
May 27th, 2006, 01:00 PM

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Paul said he saw Jesus ... or did he encounter a localised false Christ that Jesus had warned about?

LK 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Paul knows this

2COR 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.


1COR 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

If people accept that Jesus spoke Truth, only then the answer to Paul's question is NO ... he has NOT seen Jesus because Jesus said nobody would see him in a localised place. Jesus warned that anybody who says they have seen him is to be avoided i.e., GO NOT AFTER THEM NOR FOLLOW THEM!!!!

Was the one who supposedly identified himself to Paul as 'Jesus' a false Christ as warned about by our Master or are they accusing Jesus of not telling the Truth in his warnings? ... do people believe Jesus or believe Paul? Did Jesus lie or did Paul lie ... easy answer

ROM 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

2COR 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
(this word for 'messenger' is translated as 'angel' in every bible verse EXCEPT this one ... angel of Satan ... fits description of 'angel of light' Paul knows of)

Even if they check fruit and see that Jesus delivers people FROM Satan while Paul delivers TO Satan ... opposites.